Would-be Calfornia governor Caitlyn Jenner continued her campaign to prove she has absolutely no business ever serving in that job this weekend. When asked about the place of transgender kids in school sports, Jenner said transgender girls should not be allowed to compete.
Jenner made the remarks during an impromptu interview for Disclose.TV. The footage has since gone viral courtesy of Jenner’s incendiary remarks. When asked about several bills recently passed in states such as Arkansas and Idaho that ban transgender girls from competing on girls’ sports teams, Jenner had a surprising answer.
NEW – Caitlyn Jenner: Trans girls shouldn't compete in female sports.pic.twitter.com/0AJjH42YFW
— Disclose.tv ? (@disclosetv) May 1, 2021
“This is a question of fairness,” Jenner said. “That’s why I oppose biological boys who are trans competing in girls spots in school. It just isn’t fair. And we have to protect girls’ sports in our schools.”
Related: Billy Porter threw some serious shade at Caitlyn Jenner this week
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Footage of the encounter quickly went viral on social media, inviting immediate backlash against the Olympic gold medalist. Then, in an even more shocking move, Jenner doubled down on her words.
I didn’t expect to get asked this on my Saturday morning coffee run, but I’m clear about where I stand. It’s an issue of fairness and we need to protect girls’ sports in our schools.https://t.co/YODLDQ3csP
— Caitlyn Jenner (@Caitlyn_Jenner) May 1, 2021
“I didn’t expect to get asked this on my Saturday morning coffee run,” she tweeted, “but I’m clear about where I stand. It’s an issue of fairness and we need to protect girls’ sports in our schools.”
Needless to say, Twitter had thoughts about Jenner’s remarks.
“Cait… this ain’t it,” wrote Jenner’s former I Am Cait co-star Trace Lysette. “When you’re on hormones and or blockers there is not an advantage. I ran track at the club level with college girls and trust me there is no advantage. I would have went pro if I was able to run the times I ran before hormones etc.”
Cait… this ain’t it. When you’re on hormones and or blockers there is not an advantage. I ran track at the club level with college girls and trust me there is no advantage. I would have went pro if I was able to run the times I ran before hormones etc.
— Trace Lysette (@tracelysette) May 2, 2021
“You are such a traitor @Caitlyn_Jenner,” said transgender MMA fighter Fallon Fox. “So we need to ‘protect girls sports’ from other girls now? And fairness? Don’t you know how testosterone blockers work?”
You are such a traitor @Caitlyn_Jenner
So we need to “protect girls sports”from other girls now? And fairness? Don’t you know how testosterone blockers work? https://t.co/JI35faSdbc— Fallon Fox (@FallonFox) May 1, 2021
radiooutmike
So, according to her definition, she’s a biological male still?
Donston
No out trans people denies being biological males/females.
justwannaleaveonecomment
Donston that’s a really good point. I was browsing Reddit recently and there was a pic of a self-identified ftm man and with the identifier I could kind of see it, but if he didn’t clarify that he was trans on his own I would’ve assumed he was a biological male. I feel like the very act of identifying as trans acknowledges your biological other gender.
Catholicslutbox
PC nonsense aside, trans-girls do have a distinct advantage over bio-girls.
Sure, there are some with more “traditional” builds, but the ones like bruce would run circles around bio-girls.
It’s not black-and-white.
LumpyPillows
No, she’s a trans woman. Not a woman, a trans woman.
Den
“PC nonsense aside, trans-girls do have a distinct advantage over bio-girls.”
Let’s see some valid citations supporting that. Your imagination or assumptions are never actually reality. Even in this article there are trans athletes who deny what you are saying. Do you believe your imagination trumps their reality?
Ronbo
Testosterone doping is not allowed in most sports. Testosterone is real and present in trans women who have not had surgery or are not taking hormone blockers.
How do female athletes feel about competing with athletes who benefit from testosterone? The decision is not for me to make; but, with female athletes.
Let them decide.
Goforit
Why is anyone surprised? Same old Republican mindset. “I’ve got mine. F@#* everyone else”.
Max
wanna be girl, go away.
LumpyPillows
How transphobic of you.
cuteguy
Is anyone really surprised anything re: this toxic narcissist at this point?
nyxy
Imagine a transgender not even understanding the needs of their own community. Ugh. What a horrible representative except for the repressive right.
LumpyPillows
Perhaps this Olympic gold medalist knows that even at her age she could destroy most women competitors at their prime. The question isn’t about supporting trans girls, its about whether it is fair and safe. I don’t know the answer because the transphobes on one side and the elite woke on the other won’t stop pissing on each other.
Den
“I don’t know the answer because the transphobes on one side and the elite woke on the other won’t stop pissing on each other.”
There is this thing called “empirical research”, check it out.
” In fact, trans athletes have been allowed to openly compete in the Olympics since 2003, and yet no trans athlete has ever gone to the Olympics.”
“https:/ /sportsscientists.com/2019/03/on-transgender-athletes-and-performance-advantages/” (remove the spaces on this) This is an even handed article that lays out all the research and arguments and notes that given the number of athletes that have transitioned, we do not see any of them on podiums. They seem to occupy the same rank in female sport as they did in make sport.
LumpyPillows
Still does not make it right or fair. We used to be angry when the Soviets and East Germans fielded huge trans women and dominated the women’s Olympics. Wonder what changed?
Den
First off, those were not “trans women” but women who were doped up with testosterone throughout their training so as to build uncharacteristic muscle mass. That was during the period in sport when pretty much all world class athletes were doping on something.
Were that still going on, yes we would be just as angry. But this situation is exactly the opposite: trans women given testosterone blockers, and estrogen that reduces muscle mass.
Donston
I’ve always felt that Caitlyn is closer to being non-binary and/or genderfluid than genuinely trans feeling. But it’s apparent she’s so caught up in what are supposed to be traditional gender roles and gender behaviors that she can’t deal with being an effeminate male with gender dimensions. Let’s not forget that weeks after coming out as “trans”, this is someone who claimed to be against same-sex marriage and was talking about marriage should be between males and females. I’m doubting she has ever felt genuinely trans.
I’m not gonna down Caitlyn’s opinion here, because honestly, I have complicated and contradictory feelings towards trans people competing in sports. As does my trans best friend. But of course, Caitlyn had to be completely tactless, nuance-less and even trans-phobic in her response. And if you’re trying to be taken seriously as a politician, why are you responding to such a hot button topic through TMZ? That’s some “reality star” type shit to do not politician shit. Would have been better off not responding to them at all. But of course, she couldn’t do that, because it’s the attention and validation she craves. At least Martina isn’t being tacky and saying shit mostly for attention and validation.
Honestly, Caitlyn (as well as quite a few public figures) is a perfect example that being gay/bi/lesbian/queer/fluid/non-binary/trans/whatever identifying doesn’t mean that you care about other “queers”, doesn’t mean that you’re not about using identity/sexual/gender politics to your benefit alone, and doesn’t mean you’re not full of hatred and resentments.
Centrism
I’m pretty sure Caitlyn is just a straight guy who gets off on crossdressing and decided to take the fetish to the next level.
Donston
I would usually call that perspective “problematic” and broadstroking. And I respect individual identities, fluidity, dimensions, contradictions, how broad gender and sexuality is as well as how broad the gender, sexual, romantic, affection, emotional investment, relationship spectrum is. But based on Caitlyn’s own words concerning gender/“gay”/“queer” issues, she doesn’t seem to view herself as genuinely “trans” and seems to think being a “trans woman” is mostly about wearing dresses and make-up and having long hair. She probably resents effeminate males and male identifying folks who wear dresses and makeup, as well as “gay” identifying people and same-sex love and commitment.
Den
So you are saying your “feeling” about someone is more reality based than the stated position of the individual in question (who has gone to great expense to surgically change their sex). I might consult a mental health professional about that.
“I have complicated and contradictory feelings towards trans people competing in sports.”
Regardless of your “feelings” there is a host of research, which is more indicative of reality than feelings will ever be. And there is past performance. As the number of trans athletes has increased, the presence of trans athletes on podiums (specifically M-T-F) has not at all. And in the time since the Olympics has allowed trans athletes to compete, not one has managed to qualify for an olympic team, regardless of their level of competition prior to transition. These facts definitely mean more than any feelings or imagination based opinions you might have. And they are facts, so they advance no agenda.
Donston
I’m actually more fine with children competing than adults. Also, the line between what is and isn’t supposed to be “trans” has gotten very blurry in recent years. To what extent does the athlete have to be “trans”, and is it based more on identity or physiology? While what if someone stops taking their hormones while competing? It’s a complicated issue. Let’s not pretend that it’s not. Just as identity, gender, sexuality and the gender, sexual, romantic, emotion, commitment spectrum are very complicated and individual and requires mature, nuanced convo. Let’s not be basic just because we want to make sure that we’re being “progressive”.
That aside, Caitlyn is undoubtedly trash.
frapachino
@ donston “ more fine” oh dear!
Den
“Also, the line between what is and isn’t supposed to be “trans” has gotten very blurry in recent years. To what extent does the athlete have to be “trans”, and is it based more on identity or physiology?”
The line has not gotten very blurry, but in fact has been increasingly clarified as the article makes quite clear!
Hormone levels, and the amount of time a person has spent on hormone therapy are clearly spelled out. It has nothing at all to do with how a person “feels” or “identifies”, and everything to do with medicine and physiology. You are as bad here as those (like Ben Carson) who talk about “big hairy men” putting on dresses to go into bathrooms and try to watch women pee!!
And yes, Jenner is absolutely trash! Total agreement there.
MissTerri
I’m not much for women’s sports but I would LOVE to watch a 6 foot 200 pound WOMAN ON HORMONE BLOCKERS compete against other women! Hi-LAR-ious!!
Catholicslutbox
y u trollin?
Just because non-bio females have a significant advantage over bio-women, because of the way their body developed, level of muscles, size, etc., shouldn’t preclude them from female-only (competitive) sports. Bio-women are already seen as inferior to their male counterparts, so what’s wrong with dropping them 10 more pegs? Let trans girls steal all their scholarships.
Den
Catholicslutbox
y u trollin?
Why are you?
The actual facts regarding M-T-F competitors in Olympic and other sports indicate that your imagination is further from reality than you seem to understand.
Harley
So which public bathroom does SHE use?
LumpyPillows
Bathrooms are a different issue. She identifies as a woman, so I would guess she uses the ladies’ room.
Fahd
The Republican line-up in the recall election is going to be full of media whores. In any election, name recognition is important – she’s got that, and many voters are so disaffected and cynical that they like to vote for the joke candidate (see Arnold Schwarzenegger when he first won election). I’m not ruling her out which is a big “yikes”. Let’s hope the mail-in vote helps bring reason to the election.
I too think she hasn’t really given being transgender sincere thought and reflection — almost like she just got carried away with transvestism, and had the time and money for some of the medical procedures, so why not. Or maybe she is just a person devoid of empathy.
In any case, I’m not counting her out.
Donston
Let’s just hope Republicans using media gimmicks to win elections is over. And honestly and unfortunately, we’re gonna need trans-phobia to assist. The good thing is that Caitlyn’s following is very narrow. Trying really hard to appease Conservatives hopefully won’t work.
winemaker
Anyone other than 3 more years of gavvy’ giveaway the store and everything else for free’ newsom. if you still don’t get it a visit to San Francisco, Los Angeles or any large city in California is warranted. See and smell the stench of streets reeking like toilets with the stench of piss, feces, rotting garbage and used needles., homeless encampments taking over sidewalks, streets and city parks along with unaffordable costs of living causing many long term residents and native Californian’s to leave in droves. Just what positive thing has newsom done for anyone other than himself? Bottom line: newsom and his cronies are trying to destroy the whole state of California just like he did to San Francisco before he dumped us and trotted off to be jerry the ‘clown’ brown’s ass kissing flunky. Sadly he’s succeeded in the destruction so well many places will take years to recover if at all, sad to say.
Fahd
@winemaker
The people of California all by themselves voted for a proposition to increase the gas tax. Still can’t believe it. That’s why I’m worried they’ll elect Jenner.
Blaming Newsom for all of California’s woes is like blaming Obama when you spill your cereal. Oh that Obama! Oh that Newsom!—- Also, to add to your oft-repeated list of Newsom’s wrongs, you forgot to mention that Newsom was married to Donald Trump, Jr.’s current partner/lover/fiance, Kimberly “The Best is Yet to Come” Guilfoyle, double yuck!
Nevertheless, any Democrat, including Newsom, is better than the Republican cavalcade of media whore clowns getting ready to run – so, I guess I disagree with you.
mark2029
Her kids and step kids did too.
LumpyPillows
Is it fair or safe for a trans girl to compete against girls? It is a fair question that is being avoided. One can support trans people and still ask this question and expect thoughtful discussion.
frapachino
The radical leftists won’t allow a discussion because they know they’ll lose , that’s why they are always trying to shut people down like the true Marxists they are!
LumpyPillows
Alas, I don’t think they are afraid to lose, they believe they are right, just like the right-wing extremists. They are dangerous to the rest of us, the lot of them.
Roy Moss
Don’t you have a neo-Fascist meeting or a Trump rally to attend? Why do you right-wingers come to Queerty to spew your hate? Wouldn’t Brietbart or Fox News be more appropriate?
Texasholdem
How safe was it for Sarah Fuller to play on a Division 1 NCAA football team?
How safe was it for the 19 girls who have played in the Little League Baseball World Series?
Centrism
Anyone who acts like this is a simple issue is dumb or lying. There are definitely situations where trans people may have unfair advantages in the case of MTF trans people and disadvantages in the case of FTM trans people.
Heywood Jablowme
She has said the opposite in the past (says MSNBC), five years ago and even just last year.
Donston
Yep, just saying whatever for attention and now to appease the Conservative base. I may agree with the opinion to some degree. But it’s apparent Caitlyn has no real convictions or politics. That, along with the tacky words and attention whoring makes it very obvious this political stint is mostly driven by extreme narcissism and megalomania.
frapachino
Changing ones mind on an issue shows intelligence and an ability to reason! Obama and Clinton were both anti gay marriage at one point! I was pro death penalty but became anti death penalty!
Roy Moss
Suicide is the best thing Jenner could do for society.
Centrism
My comments get moderated but this one doesn’t? Ok.
frapachino
@ centrism Roy is probably an editor at Queerty, I’d be willing to bet many of the commentators here are!
LumpyPillows
Horrible, Roy.
cuteguy
Btw, whatever happens to the ERA, the Equal Rights Amendment. Women wanted to be treated equally, right? All of a sudden when it’s not convenient for them, they have this narcissist speaking for them. Just like the so called religious right had another narcissist in Trump speak for them for the last 4 years. If women have been fighting for equal rights, where are they?
Centrism
Most women are fine with sports being separated by sex. In fact, introducing female-only sports was encourage by the feminist movement back in the day.
Roy Moss
@ Centrism I’m sure that the entire female gender is grateful that they have you around as their spokesperson as you apparently have the inside track as to what “most women” are fine with.
Centrism
@Roy Can’t deny it, can you?
LumpyPillows
Equal rights does not mean men and women are the same.
Texasholdem
@Centrism what about lesbian feminist Billie Jean King defeating Bobby Riggs?
LumpyPillows
Bobby Riggs was a washed up, old guy, playing the Billie Jean at her prime. It was an agreed to competition for money, and has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about.
Texasholdem
@Lumpy Riggs defeated homophobe Margaret Court 4 months prior to losing to King. Court #1 was ranked higher than King #2. So even at 55 he could still play well.
Also the point is not who won but that they played against each other at all.
LumpyPillows
You made my point. It is unfair for men to complete against women; an old, washed-up drinker beats the world number 1 female tennis player. Males will dominate based on size and strength. As far as an exhibition for money, it is irrelevant and proves nothing. They agreed to it, so it is what it is. I just can’t figure out what point you are trying to make, because this leads no where good for your position.
triguykeith
I am all for fairness. But this woman hasn’t a clue as to the struggles of trans kids in school. Not even close. The lack of compassion and blunt across the board attitude is typical. But most ironic is the FACT that so many Republicans have openly mocked Trans kids, women and recently our own Assistant Secretary of HHS Rachel Levine. How can she support a party that called this woman everything from “fat and lazy” to “an ugly broad, or version of one” Really classy and mature republicans ?
frapachino
That’s pretty mild compared to the things the radical leftists say about everyone else! Both sides need to stop with the hate!
LumpyPillows
Because trans kids have it rough, and I agree they do, it is not an excuse to deny extenuating issues. Trans girls and boys are different, not inferior, but different. I cringe every time some woke person screeches trans women are women; they aren’t. Trans girls have penises, for example. This requires an entirely new approach to pediatric health care. While we can argue that trans girls should be allowed to use girl’s bathrooms, should they be allowed to use girl’s locker rooms? We really have not worked through these changes as a society or community. It was forced on people and that is part of the right-wing anger on the topic. It is these kinds of things that backfire on trans people, as well as LGB people.
Texasholdem
@LumpyPillows… so if a person is born with the condition Aphallia you would consider them to be female?
LumpyPillows
The old “what about intersex people” red herring. We can talk about it, but it is a different topic.
Roy Moss
All Conservatives are rotten human beings driven by nothing other than hate and greed. As much as many of us wish it were different, it’s not. Republicans are all lacking in decency, kindness, intelligence, honesty, integrity and honor.
Prax07
Men, which they are, shouldn’t be competing against actual biological women. It’s not rocket science here.
cuteguy
No one is talking about men genius. We are talking about trans WOMEN. It’s not rocket science. Go back to Fox News you GQP troll
LumpyPillows
While I agree trans women are not women, they aren’t men either; your characterization is crude, on purpose I assume. They are trans women. We need to figure out how to integrate trans men and women into typically gender segregated organizations and social structures.
James26
Well said. Transwomen are male by definition. If they were female, they wouldn’t be transgender.
GlobeTrotter
People are so “woke” nowadays that they willfully ignore the basic biological differences between the sexes. I’m no fan of Caitlyn Jenner, and I find her woefully inadequate to the task of governing the world’s 5th largest economy, but on this issue, I’m afraid she’s right!
All the hormone blockers in the world will not change a transgender woman’s body that has already undergone the changes of puberty. Caitlyn Jenner herself is living proof of this. Although she takes hormone blockers, she’s still twice the size and twice the height of the average female. NO AMOUNT OF HORMONE BLOCKERS can change this, and it’s foolish to argue otherwise!!
Hormone blockers prevent the continuous production of testosterone, but they DON’T REVERSE the changes they’ve already made to the body! So when a boy undergoes puberty and his testosterone causes him to grow to a height of 6 foot and a weight of 200 pounds, he can block his testosterone production, but his height will not change, nor his weight. He will STILL have a major advantage over the average female, no matter the state of his hormones.
And THAT’s Caitlyn Jenner’s argument. It’s a matter of simple biology and no amount of “wokeness” can wish it away.
LumpyPillows
I share you concerns.
Den
All the hormone blockers in the world will not change a transgender woman’s body that has already undergone the changes of puberty.
Golly gee!
It is truly amazing how empirical research (have you heard of it?) demonstrates your imagination and feelings are not reality. Trans women, in fact lose muscle mass, lose bone density and undergo a series of bodily changes mediated by the presence of estrogen and lack of testosterone. Funny how that works, Science describes things, imagination is simply imaginary.
Some may lose significant muscle mas, some less so. But as noted in a host of research, elite athletes who have transitions do not dominate women’s sport. At best they achieve a rank equal among their peers as they rose to while still men.
And please, do not bring up the case of two specific track athletes that all the right wing folks scream about over and over and over and over again. Trans women have not displaced female athletes, do not dominate the podiums, and have never actually managed to qualify for women’s olympic teams.
GlobeTrotter
You’re referring to the advantages conferred by muscle mass, I’m referring to the advantages conferred by height and size. Taking hormone blockers WILL decrease muscle mass in males, however they do nothing to decrease a man’s height or his size, and both these properties confer huge advantages in the sports arena. Let’s take Caitlyn Jenner herself as an example. She has a height of 6 feet, 2 inches and weighs well over 200 pounds. Even at the age of 71, and even after years of hormone therapy, she STILL HAS SIGNIFICANT physical advantages over biological females half her age on account of her size alone, DESPITE having very low levels of testosterone. Once again, hormone blockers do NOT reverse the size differences between the sexes! This is not my imagination, but rather hard, scientific, easily verifiable facts!
You’ve also pointed out that no transgender female has ever gone on to dominate sports. And while that may be true, it doesn’t follow that that failure can be attributed to the (equalizing) effects of hormone blockers. There may be many reasons that explain why trans athletes fail to achieve dominance that have nothing to do with the status of their hormones, e.g. socio-economics, psycho-social, discrimination, poor training facilities, etc. It is therefore entirely possible that they fail to win medals because of poor training or discrimination, despite having vastly superior strength and size. We see this all the time in the Olympics, dirt poor countries with superior athletes losing out to the almighty United States or Great Britain with vastly superior trainers and multi-million dollar, state of the art training facilities.
Cam
Let me summarize.
Republicans were not able to scare their base as much by screaming about trans people in bathrooms. So now they invented a problem that doesn’t exist.
Republicans, who have been trying to cut funding for women’s sports for ages and who have tried to get rid of title 9 which guarantees money for women’s sports, are now pretending to be concerned that some kid, decided to go through mandated therapy, hormone replacement and surgery, all so they could compete on a women’s softball team.
Because that’s where the real money is.
Let’s see, professional women’s basketball players in the WNBA get around $35,000 a year. The same amount somebody making the new minimum wage brings in.
Sorry, Republicans are going to have to come up with something better. This is just beyond idiotic.
MissTerri
So can just any random biological male join a girls’ sports team now if they say they are a girl? Or are they going to be testing every teenage athlete for hormone blockers? The mind boggles!!!!
Den
Please try reading articles before commenting on them, it will perhaps keep you from sounding stupid.
No, child, random men cannot say they are women and then join women’s teams. Grow up, learn to read.
Dives
So, how many times has a transgender girl actually joined a competitive female sport where she has demonstrated an unfair advantage? Please cite names and cities where this has happened. I will wait for your answers.
James26
Terry Miller, a trans-identified male who attended Bloomfield High School, and Andraya Yearwood, a TIM who attended Cromwell High School, both in Connecticut. They are runners — fully male, and neither were receiving any blockers or female hormones. Allowing these males to compete against females robbed female runners of their proper finishing ranks and opportunities for scholarships. State legislatures do not need to wait for this situation to occur before taking action.
LumpyPillows
There are examples. Dr. Renee Richards as the first trans professional tennis player, for example, who now does not support trans girls in girls sports. There are all the Soviets in the Olympics from back in the day, for example. But the rarity of trans women in women’s/girl’s sports cuts both ways; if they do not play girls sports, why are we fighting to allow them to do so?
LumpyPillows
Now we’re waiting for you, Dives.
James26
It’s wonderful to see how Jenner causes all the trans activists to shriek and flip out. Anything that upsets trans activists is presumptively good for LGB people, who historically have been the main victims of trans activism.
As for Jenner’s comments on female sports, they are undoubtedly true. Even if one were to believe that “transwomen are women,” they are still biological males. You might believe that their gender can change, but their biological sex does not. Sports must be regulated by sex, since gender and gender identity have no relevance to what takes place on the field.
Den
Despite what YOU (by which I mean you, and others who cannot differentiate between belief and reality), there is empirical research that give lie to your assertions.
Your beliefs have no relevance to what takes place on the field, or anywhere else for that matter.
James26
What empirical research?
Den
What empirical research?
I have posted links and quotes from other articles in other comments on this article. Not going to repeat them for a right wing troll who insists on harping on the case of two boys who scammed their way onto a girls team. Yes, that it the same two kids Fox shrieks about repeatedly, and I have no doubt that Fox is your go-to source of “information”.
One thing worth repeating is that the Olympics has allowed trans athletes to compete for a number of years now, but NO trans athletes have been able to qualify for Olympic teams. Had you any sort of intellectual prowess, that might tell you something. Similarly there has been no presence of trans women on podiums in less prestigious competitions. Again, if you had any logical faculties that might imply your imagination is not a good basis for the formation of opinions. Nor is the spew at Fox a good basis for mature opinions.
Den
Here: (since you probably are not too adept at scrolling or skimming content)
“https:/ /sportsscientists.com/2019/03/on-transgender-athletes-and-performance-advantages/” (remove the spaces between the slashes, as I have found posting live links can get your comment thrown into the “moderation” bin, never to emerge).
James26
@Den That’s not empirical research. It is what is known as an essay. Further you claimed that the essay would refute my assertions in my comment. But my assertions were about the adversarial relationship b/t LGB and T, which is not addressed anywhere in the essay, and 2) that “transwomen” are biological males and do not change their sex. The essay does not address the first assertion and agrees with the second.
As for the essay’s take on transwomen” playing against real women, it rejects the view of trans activists that anyone who identifies as a woman is a woman and it rejects the idea that “transwomen” should be able to compete against real women absent some regulation of their hormones, and even then, he isn’t entirely confident that allowing “transwomen” to compete is the right thing to do:
“Simply allowing self-identification as female is not good enough. We cannot allow a situation where all it takes is for someone to say “I’m identifying as female” in order to enter women’s sport. That would be analogous to what Zuby did (and what some organizations allow, and some other people are fighting for), and it would result in the disappearance of women from sport.”
Mr. Stadnick
I would also like to know what Caitlyn Jenner thinks about people who kill someone in a road accident they caused but don’t get charged and prosecuted.
frapachino
Ask Teddy Kennedy’s family!
LumpyPillows
Two trolls walk into a bar. They immediately prove they are simpletons.
Mr. Stadnick
@frapachino
One has nothing to do with the other. But I guess if you want to bring up something 50 years old or so go right ahead. Caitlyn Jenner killed a woman and paid off her family. Is that what California wants out of a governor?
richybruce
Funny, the brain dead bitch didn’t have any trouble with it when she was playing on a woman’s golf team,. Typical Republican, do as I say, not as I do. They should give her a brain transplant and finally complete the operation.
frapachino
The misogyny from some in the LGBTQ community and the Marxists is astounding, most agree it’s not fair for a biological male to compete against biological women! You can spew your phobic accusations all you want it doesn’t change anyone’s mind!
Texasholdem
Why aren’t any of the people in this thread advocating trans exclusion being vocal of their support Caster Semenya, who is a cis woman being persecuted for having a naturally occurring hormone abnormality.
Texasholdem
LUMPY, your earlier definition of a man is having a penis. Prove that she has or ever had one or that she has a Y chromosome.
LumpyPillows
I never said that the definition of a man is anything. So, start over.
Den
At an elite athletic level, blood hormone levels are monitored and must fall within certain parameters. Similarly certain substances cannot be present during competition, even if the athlete has actual medical needs for them.
That is just the way it is. So female athletes cannot have testosterone levels above a certain threshold.
It is called rules. But rather than being based on emotion and fantasy, as the anti-trans folks’ desired rules, they are based on sound physiological knowledge. Sadly, Caster Semenya’s medical issues disqualify her unless she were to take testosterone blockers. A natural genetic abnormality is still an abnormality.
Texasholdem
But it’s fine for Michael Phelps to produce less lactic acid than the average athlete?
Texasholdem
If trans women can’t compete in girls sports then cis women shouldn’t be allowed to be police officers, firefighters, Marines, lifeguards, etc. Unless they prove they can compete with cis men equally in the physical tests for those professions.
James26
Sports are segregated by sex whereas the professions you listed are not. So your argument does not hold water.
Den
Fiirefighters and police officers have to demonstrate the exact same level of strength and fitness be they male or female. The demands are exactly the same on both.
Den
Not sure about lifeguards or marines.
inbama
The male advantage sets in at puberty, and is only somewhat modified afterward by cross-sex hormones. Google Drs. Emma Hilton and Tommy R. Lundberg’s article “Transgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance Advantage” which examines 18 different sports categories.
Den
And here is the authors’ conclusion, whihc is not included in most of the abstracts one finds through google:
“If transgender women are restricted within or excluded from the female category of sport, the important question is whether or not this exclusion (or conditional exclusion) is necessary and proportionate to the goal of ensuring fair, safe and meaningful competition. Regardless of what the future will bring in terms of revised transgender policies, it is clear that different sports differ vastly in terms of physiological determinants of success, which may create safety considerations and may alter the importance of retained performance advantages. Thus, we argue against universal guidelines for transgender athletes in sport and instead propose that each individual sports federation evaluate their own conditions for inclusivity, fairness and safety.”
They argue AGAINST the universal ban that the right wing is thirsting for, and in the body of the paper admit that
1. athletic performance is based on more than the simple facts of muscle mass and bone density
2. their cohort did not involve either male or female or trans athletes, but simply “normally” fit people.
curiobi
I can’t with her! Remember when she went on Ellen and said she couldn’t understand why gay people felt the need to get married, and Ellen who is married to a woman was stunned and had to frigging explain equality to her?
Then being photographed wearing a frigging MAGA hat when Trump was trying to ban trans people from the military. And now this.
She is disappointing at every opportunity, and frankly I wish she would shut up, she represents no one but her own ego.
Cam
Interesting then that Jenner played in a women’s golf event.
Ohhhhh right, as a Republican it’s ok for her to be a hypocrite and attack others for doing what she does.
ryanss
So, she’s throwing shade on herself. What a dumb and evil person. Wasn’t she born a male?
Cam
Funny how the troll account will bust out so many of it’s screenames whenever there’s an article about Trans people or Black people or to defend the attacker when a gay person is beaten.
Guess we can see who the Republican party thinks will scare their base the most before the next election.
ManCanBemuse
The post-campaign chaos and its possible resolution were foreseen in a shocking book that also understood that these times of angst are fueled by a mostly unconscious but instinctual knowledge that humanity is at the end of its evolution as it has known it. “The Ecstasy of Carbon,” by Charles T. Laffoday, describes the world after Empire and much of Western Civilization collapse in a cacophony of Identity Politics, polarization and fractious subdivisions. It is a story informed by an Anthropological Futurism that is described from the point of view of the survivors that delves into a rarely imagined possible outcome of our current political climate of tribalism and divisiveness. It is a book that builds upon its precursor from 2010 entitled “Fixed Stars Rise,” one of the first books to predict the collapse of Empire and the rise of Gay Elitism with its awareness of the unique evolutionary characteristics and trajectory of the gay male form as that most ideally suited to hybridize with increasingly complex AI who have no need or desire to perpetuate what will soon be the superfluous act of biological procreation with its inherent costs and conflicts, especially with what is feared to be a loss of rationality and personal freedom in a hyper-feminist world. Everything is again open for discussion in this existential moment where the most fit of the fittest must be chosen for hybridization… It probes the riddle of why male homosexuality has continued to arise in the random distribution of human evolution. Concomitantly, it ponders what the role of women and femininity would be in this future society of gay man/machine hybrids who will have no use for procreation. It discusses the evolution of concepts and ideas, especially in accordance with technological developments. It is here where is discussed the society and the ethics of the new race, The Mance, the merging of man with experience, and the gradual and then meteoric ascension of Porno for this new race and this new world, whereby only with the hindsight afforded by these technological innovations can it be perceived to encompass the gist of the deepest ontological meaning in existence, embodying the most vital workings of the energies of chemical reactions in their purest and most unifying forms, revered among the scholarly disciplines. It explores what is unique in the physical and cultural evolutionary history of Western Europeans, particularly Northern Europeans, which affords many of them a capacity—sometimes even a predilection—to feel ashamed and guilty and angry at the historical success of their heritage. It is the proclivity for The Bleeding Heart, which dissipates in the populations of Eastern Europe and Southern Europe and is rarely, if ever, found in the rest of the world’s populations. Finally, it discusses the resolution of one of the most profound physical and conceptual dichotomies inherited from the human evolutionary path: the conflict between individualism, which is associated with the European trajectory, and that of collectivism, which is associated with the East Asian trajectory.