UPDATE: Barry Manilow says Friday: “I recently heard a rumor about me and Spotify. I don’t know where it started, but it didn’t start with me or anyone who represents me.” The performer’s music is still available to stream on the platform.
Following demands by Neil Young that Spotify remove his music in protest of podcast host Joe Rogan using the platform to spread of COVID-19 disinformation, another legendary the singer has followed suit.
Barry Manilow, who has sold more than 85 million records and is considered one of the world’s best-selling artists, has also joined Young in requesting Spotify pull all his music, as well. Journalist Amy Siskind took to Twitter to share the news.
Barry Manilow joining Neil Young and pulling his music from Spotify. @barrymanilow I can’t smile without you, and fortunately was already streaming you this month on Apple. pic.twitter.com/alaEfa7Vxj
— Amy Siskind ???? (@Amy_Siskind) January 28, 2022
Following Siskind’s report that Manilow would leave the streamer, musician Peter Frampton has also announced he, too, wants out.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Thank you @peterframpton https://t.co/89IfgMawvN
— Amy Siskind ???? (@Amy_Siskind) January 28, 2022
The news of Manilow, Frampton, and Young all demanding Spotify remove their music follows demands by 270 professors, scientists, doctors, and health care workers demanding that streaming giant address the constant spread of COVID-19 misinformation by Rogan.
Rogan’s podcast nets a reported 200 million downloads per month. He has frequently discouraged viewers from getting vaccinated for COVID-19 and featured guests who have alleged the pandemic is a conspiracy set by pharmaceutical companies.
Related: It looks like shock jock Joe Rogan might be in deep trouble with Spotify
“By allowing the propagation of false and societally harmful assertions, Spotify is enabling its hosted media to damage public trust in scientific research and sow doubt in the credibility of data-driven guidance offered by medical professionals,” the letter read.
In addition, Rogan has also claimed COVID-19 strengthens the immune system and promoted Ivermectin as an effective treatment for the virus. Both claims are flat-out false. Rogan has also disparaged Dr. Anthony Fauci as a “moron.”
Fans have taken to Twitter to cheer Manilow, Frampton, and Young, and to encourage more artists to also boycott Spotify…
Spotify is losing Neil Young, Peter frampton and Barry Manilow because they prefer the former host of a reality show? Yeah that seems fair
— BetterDaysAhead2022 (@PosVibes4Future) January 28, 2022
This is why I love @barrymanilow ????And I’m so lucky I was able to see him in concert ? in LA some years ago ??
— PaTresha ?????PresidentJoe? (@PaTresha10) January 28, 2022
First Neil Young and now Barry Manilow?
If John Tesh joins this exodus because of Joe Rogan, I may have to find an alternative to Spotify.
?— T. Whit Ersochs (@FeyCanoes) January 28, 2022
Darn. Wish I had #Spotifydeleted so I could delete it. Thank you for standing up @barrymanilow https://t.co/prYrORbuJb
— Doug Lyda (@major1029) January 28, 2022
Barry Manilow, Peter Frampton, Neil Young. Who's next to say #ByeByeSpotify? I really hope it's you, @foofighters https://t.co/xBG3tIyK5c
— Tara Dublin (@taradublinrocks) January 28, 2022
We're either together, united, or not…Barry is on point proving that "influence" can have an impact. @barrymanilow https://t.co/EsVwBTuz3J
— Robert C. (@RobertC_Unite) January 28, 2022
Barry Manilow makes more money in a year than you will make in your lifetime. He is a music legend. You are a hack desperate for attention.
— Lynn Reddick (@kctheatreguy) January 28, 2022
#PeterFrampton & #BarryManilow are joining #NeilYoung pulling their music catalogs out of @SpotifyUSA
Say when pic.twitter.com/bfUlQNVZyd
— John 3 Shots Sheehan ??? (@dogstar7tweets) January 28, 2022
Where’s Taylor Swift?
Blaze it sister ?— drdunbee (@drdunbee) January 28, 2022
Cam
The miscalculation I think Spotify made was this.
They looked at how much they made from Neil Young streaming and compared it to Rogan and figured it was financially ok to dump Young.
What they didn’t realize is that with the P.R. a huge number of people who don’t listen to Neil Young would still dump them because they don’t like the idea of Spotify promoting Rogan.
Spotify’s stock went from $193.00 on Monday to $171.00 on Thursday and still dropping.
graphicjack
and a lot of other artists will now follow suit… so when all added up, Spotify is going to lose more than if they dropped Rogan.
Creamsicle
To be fair though. A lot of tech stocks plummeted this month because the Fed is stopping Quantitative Easing and plans to finally raise interest rates by March.
I don’t really believe it, though. Markets have become addicted to low rates and finance has lots of lobbyists. Congress will be pressured into another bail out (PPP was effectively a bail out. 75% of PPP money went to business owners who laid off workers anyway).
There’s a much bigger correction coming. Spotify losing 20 points isn’t nearly the end of it all.
leshawnjackson96
While I don’t agree with all of Rogan’s views on the vaccines, the way that mainstream liberals have freaked out over his podcast is totally disproportionate. There’s a lot of bad information out there about Covid, including from health officials and politicians who still say we can “stop the spread” or “end Covid” through mandates. Why not censor them too?
In the end, it’s sad to see how we liberals, who used to be known for advocating for free speech, have become censorious and bitter. It’s best for us to engage with opinions we disagree with rather than attempt to censor and deplatform.
Cam
This is the typical anti-vaxxer troll tactic.
I don’t agree with Rogan BUT………. And then they lay out the same old lies an B.S.
Sweetie, no matter what screename you’re under, your troll game is sad and weak.
leshawnjackson96
It’s sad you think that any nuanced opinion that uses words like “but” or “however” is trolling. I support the vaccines and have encouraged everyone I know to get them. I also believe that cheering on the censorship of views we don’t agree with makes us liberals not really so “liberal” after all.
DennisBTR
You are clearly an example of someone with Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Gnorffy
He isn’t being censored, and there is nothing in liberal theory anywhere that suggests that anyone is entitled to a platform that can reach multiple millions of people at once.
graphicjack
stupid logic… sure others are also spreading misinformation, but you have to start somewhere… this is something Young could do. He can’t for example, pull his music from Fox News. The idea of ‘well, it’s not going to stop all misinformation, so do nothing’ is how nothing ever changes. Do what you can and hopefully it inspires others to follow. That’s what being a leader is, and being someone who is principled.
d3clark
It’s not like Rogan only made anti-science claims once. Or just disparaged the science a few times, or attacked Fauci rarely. He’s spreading incorrect information often. This information can lead to death in some cases. Spotify needs to play a disclaimer on his podcast stating that his views on Covid, vaccines, medicines, etc. are wrong or the podcast needs to be ended. No, this is NOT a violation of his Second Amendment right. It’s a matter of protecting his listeners.
leshawnjackson96
I’m not saying that this would be a violation of his First Amendment (you erroneously said “2nd”) rights, since Spotify is a private company. However, we liberals need to engage with opinions we disagree with, instead of our knee-jerk reaction to be in favor of shutting them down.
barryaksarben
Well so you dont agree? troll we are not the easily fooled deplorables that believe any nonsense tools like you post online. Go try this in a southern state website or a so called christian site but not here.
KyleMichelSullivan
Why do you keep saying “we liberals” when your comments are not liberal-oriented? No one is censoring Rogan; as you noted, that can only be done by the government. People have just decided they don’t want to patronize a platform that allows the spread of misinformation which can cause death and chaos. Are people not allowed to tell a company they no longer wish to do business with them? Your attitude seems to be, “No, because we need to engage” with people who are lying to our faces, even when those lies are dangerous and deadly. That is NOT a liberal stance.
leshawnjackson96
I say “we liberals” because I am very liberal but am disturbed by the way that most on the left have embraced an anti-free-speech view as of late (this extends beyond Covid). As you said, it’s totally okay for Young to remove his music from Spotify (the Manilow situation was a rumor). However, what’s not okay is for liberals to gleefully pile onto anyone who expresses views critical of what the public health establishment propagates.
People should certainly vax up, but I think people have the right to express anti-vax views as loudly as they want. That’s what an open, “liberal” society is all about. Take a look at John Stuart Mill or other foundational liberal thinkers if you need some help.
charette8596
Cam, just because somebody doesn’t agree with every point of view that you have doesn’t mean they’re trolls or have multiple screen names. Everyone has their own opinions and you should be more respectful of that.
Ronbo
We see harsh lies and attacks from Cam and others in order to stop others from posting… it’s a fascist technique to shut-down discussions. We actually learn from others in open and free discussions; it’s why our founding fathers made it the FIRST Amendment.
Additionally, Cam’s accusations are likely a BIG tell that Cam is posting under other screen names. I don’t mind it as my opinion is my own – I can listen to others and learn something from them. Even if they are wrong, their thoughts and ideas tell their story. Bigotry, hate and personal attacks are usually rooted in fear.
Cam
@leshawnjackson96
Another lie of the right wing troll. Desperately screaming about how “Liberal” they are, before pushing a right wing talking point, or defending a bigot like Rogan.
Cam
@charette8596 and @Ronbo
Awww, brought out two of your other screenames to defend your original comment defending anti-vaxxer and anti-LGBTQ bigot Rogan.
Your troll game is obvious and boring.
Ronbo
Cam’s has spoken! Now, read my actual words – rather than just repeat your attempts at driving away conversations thru your personal censorship drive.
Please provide my “right-wing” quote.
Chrisk
Ronbo
Wtf are you babbling about? Everyone here knows that leshawnjackson96 is a right wing troll and I’m sure has many different screen names right here in this same post.
Just like you keep attacking Cam under different screen names.
cc423
Of course people like you see it in a selfish way, disregarding the lives of others who listen to Rogan’s lies and misinformation about a pandemic that has killed more than 800k Americans alone.
But Spotify needs to be careful.. If they continue to air Rogan’s whacked out lies, they may become legally culpable for the illnesses and deaths caused by those heeding his insane advice.
Ronbo
Crisic and Cam, Take a breath and stop the hate. Leshawnjackson96 wrote “It’s best for us to engage with opinions we disagree with rather than attempt to censor and deplatform.”
THIS is not right-wing or hateful, it’s how America is supposed to work under the First Amendment! Censorship is like a boomerang, it comes back at you.
Jim
Kudos to these performers, whose talent I don’t deny, but hopefully artists who are currently relevant will follow their lead.
Terrycloth
Fauci himself has flip flopped so many times. On masks , shots. , boosters. , social distancing. Says one thling then backtracks. What I meant was…wait..didn’t you mean what you said last time ? Nobody is on the same page
radiooutmike
Good scientists and medical doctors don’t flip-flop.
But they do make recommendations based or what available data they may have or are processing at that time. Sometimes those recommendations do change. Anyone who has a knowledge of science isn’t surprised by this.
At least when Fauci, as you say, flip flops, he does give the scientific reasoning behind the change versus the previous stance. Do we ever hear of a politician, who admits they are wrong, while still in power, and corrects themselves?
I find it really funny that a lot of those anti-Fauci people out there are the same people think Trump did no wrong with Covid. Really? Trump said it would disappear by April 2020. Then it’d disappear in the summer 2020. Then he pushes chloroxyquinolone and ivermectin. Tells people not to get shots. But he gets the shots themselves. Then when he comes down with Covid? He gets the best medical treatment in the country, that curiously does not include chloroxyquinone or ivermectin.
d3clark
Can you produce data from reputable sources showing all of these many flip-flops?
Bosch
Adjusting your perspective based on incoming information is what adults do.
Cam
So the article is about Spotify and Rogan and you post aa comment attacking Fauci so you can deflect from Rogan being a bigot and anti-vaxxer.
Yeah, not obvious or anything.
Ronbo
Dr. Fauci and scientists initially sought the source of this version of Covid and the proposed that it most likely came from the lab working with Covid. The person who received government funding and engaged in work saw this as harming his company and insisted that it came from a wet market. Fauci supported the theory of a wet market.
Now, we’ve found that the new protein spike was man-made as part of the lab activities gain-of-function work. The DNA sequencing doesn’t lie. These DNA changes and tracking systems are what science has used for years.
The protein spike that triggered the was out of sequence – fact. This isn’t scientific proof; however, we still can’t “prove” that cigarette smoking causes cancer. But we do know that the unique spike also exists now – after the gain-of-function experiments. This spike usually takes decades of multiple evolutionary changes… in nature.
Factcheck.org confirms this information. NY Post: “The admission from the NIH official directly contradicts Fauci’s testimony to Congress in May and July, when he denied the US had funded gain-of-function projects in Wuhan.”
These are the documented facts, not opinion.
Mister P
Truth and the welfare of the public should matter more than making money peddling whatever BS sells.
Unregulated capitalism is not a good thing.
frapachino
Perhaps you’d be happier in China or Russia 🙂
Fahd
Rogan’s appeal escapes me, but, in any case, on Spotify, Rogan has no constitutionally protected right to spread misinformation that endangers the public health. It’s up to Spotify to decide on its Terms of Service. Obviously, it’s easiest for them to look away and collect the money. But there is the concept of corporate responsibility, and Spotify should get some quick.
Kudos to the artists who have decided to take action. May their number multiply so that the message gets through, and things change.
Also, for the record, Barry is and always has been the real deal, an icon.
Ronbo
Have you listened to any of his podcasts or … are you speaking out of ignorance or the opinion of influencers? Sometimes you have to listen for yourself rather run with what you’ve been told to think.
Minds are like parachutes; they only function when open.
Kangol2
@Ronbo, I’ve listened to Rogan a few times on Spotify and know him from his long career in the media. What Fahd is saying about Spotify as a private company is correct; they can determine who appears on their platform and who doesn’t, subject to certain federal Constitutional and state constitutioanl constraints. They are choosing Rogan over Young based primarily on money, it seems, which should surprise no one in our neoliberal capitalist society, but if enough significant artists start fleeing that site and their stock price tanks, they’ll change course.
tjack47
This is a private company, and they have the right to choose. The First Amendment can’t be applied here in the same way as a publicly held company or government business.
People have a right to their opinions. They also have the right to reap the consequences of those strongly held, ignorant and, imho, dangerous opinions. It’s misinformation that affects the health of the public. Why isn’t this considered practicing medicine without a license?
Ronbo
It’s not malpractice BECAUSE it’s a discussion, a conversation, a podcast. Remember the FIRST Amendment?
He who takes medical advice from the media is an idiot. And in America, people apparently are idiots. Can’t fix stupid… even by censuring individuals.
Or… use the Cam method of shutting down discussions by lying and saying that we have Russians posting here under multiple screen names. Oh… the horrors of free speech. s/
Kangol2
@Ronbo, you don’t grasp the First Amendment! It protects GOVERNMENT SPEECH, not all speech! A private company can fire a person for cursing in general, for cursing the company, for cursing a religion, etc. if it violates that company’s guidelines. You cannot or should be jailed or punished for standing in the middle of the street or in a government-affiliated institution and speaking your mind. Do you grasp the difference?
Jaquelope
@d3clark: What does a protestation of Rogen spreading disinformation have to do with his right to bear arms, as that is what the 2nd Amendment covers?
If you stop and think about it logically, he could be said to having the right idea about the virus strengthening the immune system… IF you survive it, it makes the immune system stronger, by producing antibodies to fight off the virus better. That, however, is probably not what Rogan meant, though.
d3clark
I tried to correct the 2nd Amendment mistake. But the site would only let it stay in or it left a group of blank spaces. I should have posted another note explaining that. Sorry.
Unfortunately, getting over a Covid infection doesn’t always produce high enough antibody titers to prevent reinfection. And those antibodies may not last very long. Plus, there are other factors involved.
I think you’re right about what Rogan meant.
Ronbo
However, the body will already have developed antibodies against Covid19 and will react much, much quicker to suppress the infection. This saves lives.
SamB
Everyone keeps saying Rogan spread “misinformation” but all he does is talk to people about anything and everything. Just because he said he tried a particular treatment doesn’t mean he’s advocating for it, he was asking “why aren’t these things talked about?” He even got “Dr” Sanjay Gupta to agree that the meds he was taking were for humans and actually being used by billions.
Rogan gets 11 million streams per podcast and the podcasts last 2 to 3 hours. His shows also have a high rate of repeated listens. They are still well ahead despite these dinosaurs leaving.
Creamsicle
“Why aren’t these things talked about?”
They are. Everyone technically can participate in science. Rogan has the resources he needs if he chose to engage with the medical literature and publish in medical journals. It’s staggeringly easy to do, which is actually a whole other deeper problem.
He just chooses not to, because posing the question in the wrong venue is more profitable than trying to actually engage with the scientific process.
He’s an entertainer. Just like Dr. Oz and Alex Jones. Anyone taking their medical advice from grifters is going to have a bad time.
Bosch
Of course he was taking human meds, that’s not the issue. The issue is that COVID is a sars virus, not a parasite.
His guest also presented false data about vaccine deaths. Tell me, if a doctor wants to help the world, would he discourage vaccines and promote anti-parasote drugs? Do you realise what the consequence of that is? Unvaccinated people are dying, and by the time they realise their mistake, there’s no way back.
SamB
Bosch: But that’s what we need, the discussion. And we need to allow these discussions to happen, he’s brought on doctors that agree with him and then ones that don’t. Rogan never claims to be a specialist he is interested in things and likes the discussion. A discussion is not dangerous.
Bosch
Tell me how a discussion benefits from lies?
And yes, this is discussion is dangerous, because it encourages behaviour that kills people. This is a suicide cult.
Bosch
Just to be clear, this scandal isn’t just about what Rogan said, it’s about what Malone said on Rogan’s show.
Here’s an example of a Malone statement:
“Regarding the genetic covid vaccines, the science is settled. They are not working.”
What is the purpose of that lie, other than fame and media attention? He is presenting it as a fact, and people will believe it.
The hospitals are full of the dying unvaccinated. Every hospital all over the world is reporting the same. Is every doctor and nurse lying, but this one media whore is telling the truth?
Suicide cult.
SamB
Bosch: He’s not just anyone coming on a show and spewing conspiracy theories. He’s a scientist. Doctor Robert Malone. Almost every article slamming him doesn’t mention that. He’s a virologist and immunologist, and here are his credentials: “His work has focused on mRNA technology, of which he was a pioneer, pharmaceuticals, and drug repurposing research.” He knows what he’s talking about. So yes, I want to hear his opinion. If you do a quick search about him you can see that there are 16,000 other scientists who agree with him. So if the scientific community is still debating this, I would like to know.
Bosch
“Almost every article slamming him doesn’t mention that. ”
Every article I’ve seen mentions exactly who he is and what he does. And I’m a little shocked that I’ve shown you one of his lies, a very dangerous one, and you just excuse it.
You prefer the lie. I want you to go to the controversial website “Sorry anti-vaxxer”, and look at their faces. Look at the faces of people as young as 21 who are now buried, because they preferred the lie. There are REAL PEOPLE, and they’re only dead because they turned a medical issue into a right Vs left one.
Bosch
I’ll try again, since it seems like my coent has entered moderation limbo for no good reason:
Yes, Malone likes name-dropping the 16,000, but that petition has nothing to do with him or his theories
You can see the details of it here:
doctorsandscientistsdeclaration . org
Nowhere do these 16,000 suggest that the vaccines have failed or that they are causing deaths.
Malone is a grifter, and you are falling for his lies.
The problem with scientists and media is this: there’s an effect in research called the “file drawer effect”. Research and experiments are repeated over and over before they become accepted as approaching fact. The first iteration of this research tends to catch media ttention, but the next 99 repitions do not. They disappear in a file drawer, because they are not exciting for the public.
So how does a scientist go about getting fame and media exposure? By intentionally proposing the opposite of accepted results. Can you name any researchers off the top of your head who were able to prove the ffocacy of vaccines, or the efficacy of facemasks these past two years? Of course not, because that’s not exciting. But we all know the name of doctor who comes with controversial claims about vaccines.
And I repeat, people are dying because of conspiracies like his.
SamB
Bosch: I’ve seen the declaration and no they don’t say the vaccine is bad, but what they’re saying is that there are better ways to deal with Covid, and they attach reference materials… a lot. I am vaccinated, 3 times! So I’m not anti-vax. We were told after getting vaccinated things will open up and things will slowly start going back to normal, but that hasn’t happened. Dr Malone and the others are saying that we need to change things at this point. If he is providing references for his opinions how could you say he’s lying? You don’t know, there is no reason for him and the others to lie. They have a scientifically researched difference of opinion.
Yes many people have died, I’m not denying that, but just a month or two ago Fauci and CDC admitted they were over-reporting Covid cases. They were including people who went in to the hospital due to a heart attack, but they happened to have covid as well.
It’s also true most covid deaths, the adult patients had 3 to 4 other underlying conditions including obesity and diabetes.
As for children dying of covid, almost all also are obese.
You can’t say what Dr Malone is saying is a lie because you can’t prove him wrong, you just chose to believe someone else.
You mention “File Drawer Effect” but you should look up “Mass Formation Psychosis”.
Bosch
“You can’t say what Dr Malone is saying is a lie because you can’t prove him wrong”
Sam, the dying are predominantly unvaccinated. How is that not proof?
Bosch
“It’s also true most covid deaths, the adult patients had 3 to 4 other underlying conditions including obesity and diabetes.”
3 to 4 conditions even? Where is your proof of this? I see it repeated in conspiracies a lot, but it’s not supported by an data. The hospital is not full of dying obese people. The hospital is not full of dying diabetic people. The hospital is full of dying unvaccinated people.
This right here is obfuscating the fact that ALL diseases are more deadly for the old and for the weakened. That doesn’t make COVID more unique or less dangerous.
What good is this information to the parents of a dead 21 year old with no health complications?
SamB
Bosch: Like I said, those who are dying have other underlying health issues. Covid will be with us forever now, just like the flu. The flu used to kill way more people than it does now, but even now, these are the flu statistics from CDC in the US, 9 million – 41 million illnesses, 140,000 – 710,000 hospitalizations and 12,000 – 52,000 deaths annually between 2010 and 2020.
Plus we don’t know that all new covid deaths are due to that person being unvaccinated.
But this is what bothers me the most, we were told that the vaccine will give us not immunity, but will reduce deaths and symptoms. It was never going to stop the virus. So why can’t I go maskless to a restaurant? I’m protected as much as possible. I really don’t care if someone else does not get vaccinated, that’s their decision and doesn’t affect me in any way, because I could get infected by someone who had the vaccine or not.
As far as a healthy 21 year old dying, there will always be outliers that defy the norm.
I got the 3 to 4 underlying health conditions from the CDC website. You have to really dig but they have charts outlining contributing factors.
Bosch
“those who are dying have other underlying health issues. ”
You mean “MANY who are dying”. That is the difference between a lie and a truth.
“I don’t care if others are unvaccinated.” Yes. That’s right.
Bosch
“I got the 3 to 4 underlying health conditions from the CDC website”
‘contributing factors’ means something completely different than “those who are dying have 3 to 4 underlying health conditions”.
SamB
Bosch: You’re right, I shouldn’t have implied that it was all, but I will venture to say it is MOST.
These are the “contributing factors” that the CDC lists: Cancer, Chronic kidney disease, Liver Disease, People with Moderate to Severe Asthma, Dementia/Alzheimer’s, Diabetes, Down syndrome, Heart Disease, HIV Infection, Types of Primary Immune Deficiency, Obesity, Pregnant and Recently Pregnant Women, Sickle Cell Disease, Smoking & Tobacco Use, Organ Transplants, Stroke.
The Mayo Clinic has this on their website: In the U.S., about 81% of deaths from the disease have been in people age 65 and older. Risks are even higher for older people when they have other health conditions. 81%!!!
I gave you sites to do some research and you brushed it off without even checking, so I don’t think you’re serious about wanting to really understand this.
Bosch
Sam, ALL diseases are more dangerous if you have underlying conditions. Your extensive list doesn’t give me new information. I understand perfectly.
What is your point exactly? You’re young and healthy, so who cares if the disease is more deadly for the old and sick?
Bosch
Let me give you back the information you’re giving me:
19% of the deaths are people under the age of 65. That’s 152000 Americans. A small percentage of a big number is still a big number.
bachy
The problem with a virus is that it does not respond to “opinions.” That’s why we turn to science: to uncover the facts. Social media is awash with a billion nobodies and their stupid “opinions” – none of which are going to stop the virus.
barryaksarben
EXACTLY
Creamsicle
Anyone who follows Joe Rogan’s health advice deserves what they get, which will be an astronomical hospital bill in most cases.
Even if QE Tapering doesn’t trigger a recession, there’s going to be a massive crisis when it turns out covid treatment medical debt is all uncollectable in 3-5 year’s time.
Bosch
Selling snake oil does not qualify as protected free speech.
malerntogo
For the same reason it is illegal to falsley yell “fire” in a crowded theater, it is or should be, illegal to spread false information that can cause harm or death.
Even more as Joe Rogan’s audience is so much larger than a theater.
iminheatlikeacat
They can do what they want and more power to them if they stand by their beliefs but if this turns out to be another “I’m going to leave the UK if it votes Brexit” and previous threats (godsends?) turn out to be false (looking at you, Jamie Oliver, Lily Allen, Gary Linekar and many others) then it’s just going to make them look foolish in the long run.
Prax07
It’s about time every last idiot pushing conspiracies, lies, misinformation, and bogus medical advice gets punished. Every last fool like Rogan should be deplatformed and fined for causing harm to society. They want their bullshit heard, go join Mikepillow’s craptastic channel.
Ronbo
We used to listen to multiple sources of information to form thoughts and opinions. Now, it seems that both conservatives and liberals are taking their opinions from influencers.
Have you listened to Rogan’s podcasts? Remember, he spends THREE hours discussing issues and that means that there are a lot of thoughts and opinions. That’s very, very little time. College took 4 years, so I’d rather rely on that.
Instead of attacking the discussion for bits and pieces of what is said, you are supposed to pull out the gems of truth. Is everyone so woke that we can’t make errors? This is a harsh standard. Are you perfect? Have you every had a discussion where you were brought a new idea and used it or rejected it?
I suggest that you give others the same kindness you give yourself. Afterall, you’ve made several errors in this single comment. Should we censure you and condemn Prax97?
Censorship has rarely led to good things.
Cam
@Ronbo
Oh look, the right wing troll account that regularly attacks LGBTQ victims of bigotry and violence tries to tell others to be kind when calling out bigots and people who want to harm others.
Your troll game is old and tired.
Ronbo
Cam is essentially telling us that he uses multiple names – projecting what Cam does on the boards. About 29 of us KNOW that his accusations are just lies designed to drive away all discussion and thought that he can’t understand.
What did I ever, ever write that was “right-wing”? Please quote what you think in “right-wing”.
Ronbo
OMG! Ronbo, how can you be so right-wing as to say, “I suggest that you give others the same kindness you give yourself.”
Ronbo
Now let’s wait and see if Cam demands that we think that Republicans and right-winger have ever, ever, ever written “I suggest that you give others the same kindness you give yourself.”
No Republican has ever, ever, ever said such a thing, Cam. Time to put your trolling game away and become an adult.
Bosch
Ronbo, evaluating information that comes out of scientific research isn’t censorship. There’s a reason that scientific publications require strict fact-checking and peer reviewing.
Malone knows that this regulation is void on podcasts, which is why he’s spreading his lies on the internet instead of presenting his findings via regular scientific channels.
If he believed the stuff he was peddling, he would be trying to influence the scientific community, not the citizen. He’s not doing this to save anyone, he’s doing this for fame.
“We don’t know how safe these vaccines will be in theong run” is an appropriate phrase for a scientist to say.
But that’s not what Malone says. Malone lies about “inventing” mRNA techniques, lies about an invented death toll from vaccinations, and lies about how effe to e they are.
Right now, only the unvaccinated are dying in my country and all neighboring countries. They’re sacrificing themselves to prove lotyalty to quacks and grifters. Isn’t protecting these people from death worth being a little strict with how easily we label information as valid scientific fact?
Look at this from outside the US, and you’ll see that all these conservative conspiracy theorists are killing the conservatives. Seems a little counterproductive, no?
Ok that was long. My point is, preventing the spread of misinformation, especially dangerous misinformation in a global health crisis, does not count as censorship.
Ronbo
Bosch, when did Rogan say he was a scientist? He didn’t.
Recognize the FIRST Amendment. Rogan is a podcaster.
If you listened to the actual podcast, it was Rogan who provided pushback. But you didn’t listen, did you?
Your attack is based upon what others have said. In a court of law, that is called “hearsay” and is inadmissible.
hearsay – Statements by a witness who did not see or hear the incident in question but learned about it through secondhand information such as another’s statement, a newspaper, or a document.
Bosch
This isn’t about censoring Rogan, this is about removing his episode with Dr Malone.
Bosch
Wait what hearsay are you talking absout? I was referring specifically to statements made by Dr Malone, and to data published by the hospitals in my country.
Ronbo
Removing the episode IS censorship.
Do you NOT believe in the First Amendment to our Constitution? People have the right to say stupid things. Your censorship ideas will eventually be used against our community – including the censorship of CRT (happening now).
Act like an adult and don’t listen to the podcast… or listen to the podcast to hear Rogan push back on the ideas. But since you didn’t listen, it’s heresay.
Attacking out of ignorance based exclusively on the words of influencers pushing for censorship, isn’t smart. It plays into the game of censorship on the right.
Bosch
Rombo, the people.in your country who absorb these opinions are dying. Medical misinformation is killing people. This isn’t about artistic freedom or political expression, this is about a fame-obsessed scientist leading people to their deaths.
Bosch
The right to free speech exists to protect the citizen from corrupt politics.
The Hippocratic oath exists to protect citizens from corrupt doctors.
You can honour both of these without violating the other.
Ronbo
Bosch, Who refused to get a vaccine in the past 2 years because of a podcast from a few weeks ago? You don’t seem to be playing with a full deck. And even worse, you are pushing for censorship and removal of content.
People also believe that books, records and video games lead to violence and death. How long until you start banning books and burning records and video games? Should we ban them also? The idea that we should ban ideas is a dangerous precedent and is in direct opposition to our Constitution.
Bosch
Seriously? A podcast full of anti-vaxx conspiracy can’t be dangerous because it’s only two weeks old? You’re criticizing my deck? You’re playing poker with a handful of rocks and pocket-lint.
You know what the difference is between videogames and COVID? COVID actually kills people. Being unvaccinated during a global pandemic actually kills people. I’d say that’s a significant distinction.
Ronbo
Bosch, did you read that Dr. Malone took the vaccine? Why are you attacking a person who took the vaccine? Is it because he provided a few inconvenient truths? If people are oriented to mis-read and/hate read, they often don’t understand the context. Anti-vaxxers aren’t going to be converted once they decide that it’s a political decision – a stupid political decision.
context
k?n?t?kst?
noun
The part of a text or statement that surrounds a particular word or passage and determines its meaning.
The circumstances in which an event occurs; a setting.
Texture; specifically, the entire text or connected structure of a discourse or writing.
Ronbo
Seems that the Right tries to suppress ideas like CRT. Now, some of the people here prefer to suppress our FIRST AMENDMENT and free speech.
The First Amendment far outweighs what is being spoken. Remember the Supreme Court ruling that allowed repugnant Nazi’s to march in Skokie? Pushing for censorship was originally a Nazi tactic, now it’s spreading to other extremists who don’t believe our Bill of Rights is is valid.
Censorship has never been a good thing.
Bosch
Preventing the spread of medical misinformation is not censorship.
Ronbo
Your own words from above, “This isn’t about censoring Rogan, this is about removing his episode with Dr Malone.”
Removing the episode IS censorship. Use both sides of your brain.
Bosch
The episode has medical misinformation. Preventing it’s spread is not censorship.
You keep trying to call me dumb, I was a neurological researcher for 15 years. I know what the scientific community looks like from the inside, and I know exactly what Dr Malone is doing. The first amendment exists to protect CITIZENS, not corrupt doctors.
You are confusing medical malpractice with free speech, and it is leading to dead Americans. Admit it, you kust want all the anti-vaxxers to die.
Ronbo
You are naïve if you think that “medical misinformation” should be censored. Have you ever watched TV? Miracle gogi berries to lose weight… tablets to make you smarter… drinks to increase physical endurance.
You can’t fix stupid. But you can kill the First Amendment with censorship.
Bosch
Weight loss berries have fine print, because they are legally required to have it.
Was there fine print on Rogan’s episode that said “the medical information in this episode is not based on fact”?
The first ammendment is there to protect YOU. It does not absolve medical professionals of social responsibility.
Here is the first ammendment:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Tell me how that means a publisher is required to publish medical misinformation?
Bosch
Also, weight loss berries, smartpills, and red bulls are not in the top 5 causes of death for the past 2 years.
Ronbo
Time moves in a steady rate forward. A podcast two weeks ago did NOT kill a single person between two years ago and today.
Lose the drama and give me one name of a dead person killed by the podcast. Or be known as an intentional liar.
I can show you that your censorship ideas has led to multiple states passing legislation censuring CRT. Are you on-board or is that censorship a different brand? Let me bring you up to speed, there aren’t brands of censorship – it’s always the same: bad.
Kangol2
You keep mentioning the First Amendment but clearly do not know what it means.
It does not protect all speech under the rubric of private corporations! This is not that hard to grasp!
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech….”
CONGRESS, i.e., the Federal Government, cannot abridge your free speech–though that actually has happened in the past–and many state constitutions also cannot do this, but a private corporation can determine what speech it allows and what it does not, up to certain constraints.
Bosch
“Lose the drama and give me one name of a dead person killed by the podcast. Or be known as an intentional liar.”
Wow. I’m trying to be civilised in this conversation, but you’re just being a dick. I’ve given you nothing but neutral informstion. Are you really sitting there pretending you don’t understand how anti-vaxx conspiracy theories lead to people being unvaccinated? Are you unaware that the majority of deaths the past few months are unvaccinated? Is it difficult for you to spot the connection there?
And you called ME dumb.
Do you know why cam perceives you as a right-wing troll? Because you tend to act like one.
Bosch
If there are no “brands” of censorship, as you call it, explain where there’s no pornogaphy on daytime television.
Ronbo
The First Amendment is not “fine print”, it’s our Bill of Rights.
No one is forcing a publisher to publish medical misinformation. But, you are working to chill the freedom of speech by calling for censorship.
Since you have not listened to the podcast, you know that you are speaking out of ignorance about the podcast. Right?
Bosch
I think you’re confusing me with someone else, I read the full transcription of the interview.
Nd how sneaky of you ta accuse me of calling the first ammendment “fine print”.
I supplied the first ammendment in my comment, to remind you what it means.
Your right to free speech means you can not be penalised by your government for the things that you say.
Your right to free speech does not mean that Malone’s lies have the constitutional right to be published. A publisher removing medical information is therefore not a violation of free speech, nor the first ammendment.
But if you want to get real.philisophoval about the extent and responsibility of free speech, why does the episode not present a counterpoint? Isn’t that basically censorship of the truth?
Ronbo
Where exactly did you find the transcript to read it?
Lying may seem the easiest route but it’s not the best. Cam lied/lies about me and I’ll never trust him/her.
Malone got pushback from Rogan dozens of times, recall?
Bosch
First you try to make me sound dumb, then you insinuate I’m trashing the first amendment, and now you’re suggesting I’m a liar.
I just read the transcript a second time, looking for the push-back you mentioned. It is not there. I’m starting to think it’s you who hasn’t consumed this episode.
Could you find it for me?
covidvaccinesideeffects dot com/joe-rogan-interview-with-dr-robert-malone-transcript/
Ronbo
First off, I don’t think that quoting you… your exact quote … is MY trying to make you look stupid. It speaks to your knowledge of censorship. “This isn’t about censoring Rogan, this is about removing his episode with Dr Malone.” That’s 100% censorship.
Additionally, thank you. I know I can trust that your truthfulness. The transcript is full of Rogan’s responses …. “That’s real?”, “That seems insane,” “We were talking about the 1 in 1,000 statistic, right?” “And I don’t think there are any long term studies, no children that can’t be right by definition, right?” (First 5 minutes alone!)
I suggest you read it again – but listening provides more contest. And please read the actual words; Cam hate-reads my comments calling me “right-wing” – even though he can’t identify a single right-wing comment! Be aware of “context” that humans hate-read; but, once you are made aware of emotional context, it changes.
The bigger truth is that calls for censorship cause greater harms. Under censorship, paranoia grows exponentially. Essentially it escalates the anger and mistrust.
Did you read my comments about the Supreme Court’s ruling allowing Nazis to march in Skokie? Do you think that a podcast is less protected by the First Amendment than actual marching Nazis?!?
Ronbo
I hope you know I’m talking about paranoia, anger and mistrust among the Nazi-like individuals on the right. Censuring would elevate Dr. Malone as a sort of icon in their minds – a martyr.
A martyr is someone that suffers persecution for advocating, renouncing, or refusing to renounce or advocate, a belief or cause as demanded by an external party.
Bosch
None of those repsonses qualify as pushback.
I understand you want to protect free speech, but you’re actually just protecting a medical quack and spotify’s business model.
We will not agree, because you don’t believe it’s necessary to censor potentially deadly medical misinformation, in the name of “freedom”. Even though you are from a country where a coffee-cup is required to tell you that it’s hot, and where a microwave is required to tell you not to put a dog in it. Maybe that’s a difference between America and western Europe, or maybe you’re just naive about the effects that an unmoderated internet has had on your country this past decade.
But you tried attacking my character multiple times, so I’m not really interested in conversing with you anymore. Especially now that I k ow you’re older than I am. Totally unacceptable.
Bosch
“First off, I don’t think that quoting you… your exact quote … is MY trying to make you look stupid” are you drunk or something? Here.
“Use both sides of your brain.”
“You don’t seem to be playing with a full deck.”
“You are naïve if you think that “medical misinformation” should be censored. ”
You argue like a f*ing teenager.
Mack
Personally I’m all for letting them not take the vaccine and die. I don’t think they should tie up the hospitals and it deny service to those for operations and so forth. Just think, it’s that many less stupid people and most are Republicans so we solve the voting situation.
cuteguy
Barry Manilow is a proven coward and everyone knows he would NEVER take a stand for the greater good.
Dez
Sure, censor and cancel those who you disagree with instead of DEBATE to show why you believe what you believe. Young, Manilow, Mitchell- there is no fool like an old fool and they are all virtue signaling pieces of human garbage- as are those who agree with them.