To be sure, religious conviction has accomplished some wonderful things for people. But boy oh boy, has it also messed up a lot of lives and relationships.
A thread on Reddit features a long history of parental abuse directed toward a gay son, and it is some really difficult reading. The thread appeared on the r/exmormon subreddit, and never before was there a clearer portrait of how harmful, cruel, and downright weird religion can be.
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“I am happy and living my big, gay life, but some wounds never go away,” the OP writes. Clearly those wounds have lingered, if he’s keeping a running list of his families abuses. Here are some highlights:
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- “There’s no such thing as being gay. Men only become gay when they go to prison. Or sometimes in the Navy.”
- “You can’t expect us to want you around us. I mean, we have grandchildren!”
- “It is the very worst sin. It would be better for you to be dead than to be gay. This is the very worst thing you could do to your brothers and sisters. Honestly, it would be better for you to kill them than for you to be gay.”
- “You won’t be with us in the Celestial Kingdom, so why should we spend any time together now?”
- “We know this is a choice. It’s in the scriptures. The prophet teaches it. Do you really think you’re smarter than the prophet?”
A response to that last point might be, “yes, and I am also smarter than the Trix bunny, because they are both fictional characters.”
At any rate, there was an outpouring of compassion and support from other redditors — you know, the values that religion is supposed to instill — and the happy ending to all this is that the OP is happily gay-married and has more or less accepted his family’s flaws even if they haven’t accepted him.
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The true problem here, of course, is the harm of organized religion — though this fellow may have forgiven his family, there are a lot of other kids out there being abused by Mormon (and other) parents because a religious structure has told them it’s ok to do so.
jkthsnk
Defend that Brandon Flowers.
Deepdow
Brian, the premier gay self-hating troll commenter of Queerty, would say that this guy deserved it.
Minyassa
Child abuse, plain and simple. Religious beliefs should not be a legal excuse to commit abusive acts on children.
GayEGO
That first comment resembles Ben Carson’s “Going to prison makes you gay.” Boy are these people a bunch of idiots. I knew I liked guys when I was 3 years old, a little bit young to be in prison.
Transiteer
A fake religion founded by a convicted con-man and polygamist. Meaningless drivel spouted by Perverts (aka Prophets) to control the simple minded. Ignore them. They’ll just be rotting meat in the ground like the rest of us. They live in LaLa Land. There’s nothing wrong with you. They, on the other hand, have serious issues.
Mack
I knew I was gay at 10 because I had a crush on Johnny Crawford of the Rifleman. I guess I had gotten out of prison then.
icntblvit
“The true problem here, of course, is the harm of organized religion”
WRONG, the problem here is bad parents.
MacAdvisor
@Transiteer:
I am not Mormon, but Quaker, and think the textual basis for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is questionable, BUT to claim Smith was a felon and a con man is mostly without foundation. Whether he was ever convicted of a crime is in dispute. As Wikipedia puts it, “In 1826, Smith was brought before a Chenango County court for “glass-looking.” or pretending to find lost treasure. The result of the proceeding remains unclear as primary sources report various conflicting outcomes.” More to the point, a felony conviction is hardly a basis for disbelieve given the event was decades before the founding of the church.
I don’t think Smith was a conman. He invested in most of his ventures and lost money himself. He was mostly penniless throughout his life, tho lived comfortably for the time due to his followers. I think he honestly believed the drivel he spouted, which takes him out of the conman category.
The bottom line, however the Mormon Church got started, it now helps millions of people lead happier, healthy, more productive lives. It also does great harm to its gay members (who, for reasons I never understand, stay with it).
mcflyer54
You lost me (and your credibility) when you quoted Wikipedia.
MacAdvisor
@icntblvit:
“WRONG, the problem here is bad parents.”
We don’t have any evidence his parenting was bad. They well could have done their best. Even under the best of circumstances, children can make poor choices, and, conversely, even under the worst circumstances, they can make good ones.
jkthsnk
He was. So is every pope that’s ever been and any preacwhore that’s ever been on TV. Jow about that ‘gove me your child cause I know he’s the Dali lama reincarnated’ bs. It’s a little hard to get down on you guys cuase you have no leader. Thought abut participating til I saw the bible on the table. As for your last point you’re just wrong. Imagine humanity if Jons and Gates hadn’t stolen open source or without the soul killing oppression of religion. Get wokw.
jkthsnk
My proofreading skills stink when I’m responding to narcissists.
Herman75
@Mack: Change will happen when there is an effect on their business model.
derek_schur
“You won’t be with us in the Celestial Kingdom, so why should we spend any time together now?
My reaction to this would pretty much be…
1. Bite me.
2. Kiss my Shiny Metal Ass.
3. You are dead to me. Don’t call. Don’t write. Do not pass Go! Do not collect $200….
OzJosh
@Transiteer: All religions are fake!
OzJosh
@MacAdvisor: He founded a religion. How much more of a con man can you be?!!
mcflyer54
He’d have been a televangelist if there had been television in the early 1800’s.
johnjob
Have never been able to get over “Moroni” (the angel) as a latinate plural as well.
bryan_caiola
@GayEGO: You can tell at 3? I don’t even remember being 3.
DuMaurier
One quibble: “the prophet” is a reference to Joseph Smith, who actually was a real person, not a fictional character like the “Trix bunny”.
(Which doesn’t mean I vouch for how smart he was, or any of his beliefs and claims)
Terrycloth
Religion as George Carlin put it..Science Fiction.
Brian
All sexual behavior is a choice – so, yes, the parents have a point when they told their son that homosexual behavior is a choice.
The problem occurs when parents deny the existence of male homosexual desires. Desires are natural, they are impulsive. To a point, they can be controlled but they cannot be eradicated.
Because male sexuality is such a powerful and constant thing, it dominates how men perceive themselves. It also dominates how people in general perceive the male gender. Thus, you get this overall concern about male sexuality in society.
Because men are the ones who do the transferring of the sex cells, social rules have evolved to ensure that these cells are given to the woman and not a man. Hence, the far greater stigma attached to male homosexuality than to female homosexuality, for example.
It is therefore in a woman’s interest to suppress male homosexual desires in men who are also interested in women, hence the great bias against male bisexuality. This bias is greater in societies where women are given great freedom to exploit double standards, such as the USA.
SFHandyman
@MacAdvisor: You couldn’t be more wrong about Joseph Smith. He was every inch a con man. The Book of Mormon was not a holy book it was a money making scheme that spun out of control. You should really study the history of the LDS church and the Burned Over District of New York State, where Joseph Smith grew up and created Mormonism. The area also spawned the Millerites, Adventists, Seventh Day Adventists, Oneida Society, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Shakers, and Seances were also popularized there.
For a start in understanding the history and issues in the book of Mormon read the CESLetter.org It was written by a true believing Mormon boy who while on his mission began to look into the church history and found glaring problems baked into its foundations.
Check out the Book of Abraham. Joseph Smith, with help from God, translated the book from authentic Egyptian Papyrus. Unfortunately for Joseph, and God, we found the Rosetta Stone and were able to do a real translation. Turns out he and God got everything completely wrong.
Or check the books of the bible that Joseph “translated” from the golden plates, that happened to be copied verbatim, including errors made by the printer, from the specific version of the bible that Joseph owned.
Joseph Smith was a horn dog. He married a 14-year-old girl. He married sisters. He married a Mother and her Daughter. He married the wives of other men! This was not a holy man.
One of the greatest accomplishments of Mormons is giving Utah State the highest suicide rate of gay teenagers. It is a sham. And there are a lot of very nice, kind people being lead on by a church that is more focussed on preserving their billion dollar real estate holdings, than serving the poor.
Sluggo2007
Religion is bullshit, pure and simple. People need to get lives. On second thought, they’re terrified of life. That’s why they’re religious.
Arconcyyon
Has Mano is he Alemanhy is city país city is !
Billysees
@Mack:
” I knew I was gay at 10 because I had a crush on Johnny Crawford of the Rifleman. ”
Me too. Watching the reruns are just as enjoyable because of him.
DarkZephyr
@MacAdvisor: why do you even come to this site? You clearly love a good homophobe.
Brian
@DarkZephyr: You shouldn’t be drawing unfounded conclusions.
MacAdvisor
@DarkZephyr:
“why do you even come to this site? You clearly love a good homophobe.”
Frankly, I like the all the pictures of handsome, cute guys. I do occasionally read the articles, however. I don’t love homophobes, but I don’t hate them either. I pity them. My first boyfriend was a Mormon and they are very nice people. Yes, very homophobic, but they have many good qualities, too. If I “hated” my friends because of one flaw, I be very alone.
dawill
As A former Jehovahs Witness, I heard basically the same things said to me when they discovered I was gay.
finn_jacobsen
@MacAdvisor: The parents clearly have their minds screwed up by organized religion when they want to exclude their son from the family: “You can’t expect us to want you around us”. So in this case religion ruins the love of your child, and I would not call that good parenting. Joseph Smith’s mother describes him as a young man with a vivid fantasy. Smith used that, his experience (and tools) as a treasure hunter, the contemporary interest in the origin of the native Americans as a lost tribe of Israel and a couple of fiction books to author the Book of Mormon and building his religion. He wisely chose hieroglyphs (reformed Egyptian) for the letters on the golden plates (which no one has actually seen) as no one at that time could translate hieroglyphs and thus disclose his fantasies. The whole Book of Mormon is fiction, and pretending it is the work of God is clearly fraudulent. As in the Bible, the book is filled with violence and threats to those who will not follow. When Jesus visited America after his resurrection, he killed tens of thousands of innocent people. So much for the loving Jesus. It is no big deal that good people stay good people in spite of their religion, it happens in all religions. It is a fundamental misunderstanding that people need religion to be good and responsible citizens.
philip_reynolds
Point 3: “Too right – you won’t be going there, I will!”
I’m an adherent of the Metropolitan Community Church.
philip_reynolds
That should be point 4.
gregoryahowell
Sounds like the world will be a better place when these parents are dead. Maybe the could kill themselves since that is one of their suggestions.
Bri1170
So, where to begin. As a Mormon myself, we are taught to follow in the example of Jesus and the commmandments he gave. He taught us to love our neighbour. He didn’t say “unless they’re gay” or anything of that such. Personally, I’ve plenty of gay friends and colleagues both men and women and I’ve been to their weddings and supported them 100%. If this guys parents have such a problem with him being gay, then it’s THEIR problem and not the church. His parents should also remember in John 8:7 when people are about to stone a woman for committing adultery and Jesus says “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” I seriously doubt his parents are perfect and even if they are, it is not their place to speak that way to their child.
We are told to support anyone who needs it in anyway, we call each other Brother and Sister because we are a family and children of God as we believe it.
I hope this comments section doesn’t turn into a Mormon bashing site and that people don’t just see this and think of our church as bad based on a few bad stories that they hear. If people are truly curious about what we believe or how we are then visit http://www.mormon.org or maybe more relevant to this conversation https://mormonandgay.lds.org
And most importantly, we believe God loves each and every one of his children. No matter who they are or what they do or have done, His love is unconditional.
potblackettle
As a mother I have never, ever understood how parents could turn against their child in their way. I don’t care if my son is gay or straight or anything else. I care that he is kind. I care that he tries his best and loves the people around him. I care that he knows he is loved and precious to so many people.
People are born gay, but they aren’t born with hatred in their hearts. They are taught to hate and divide.
I hope the young man from this article knows that there are millions of moms and dads who would cherish him and support him. Sometimes we have to make the family we need and deserve.
Thomas
@Mack: @Mack: yeah I hear you about Johnny Crawford
Thomas
@Thomas: then there was Will Robinson on Lost in Space, that pretty much sealed it for me